What is dragon fire?

Falconer · Post by **Falconer** » Mon Apr 23, 2007 5:07 pm

How is dragonfire produced? And how does one counteract it?

+ Silver - Orbs + · Post by **+ Silver - Orbs +** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 1:35 am

There's a thread already on this topic in this section

Makadona · Post by **Makadona** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 10:05 am

Ok, Dragons had organisims in there stomachs thats by-product was hydegon (lightest and most flamable element). Dragons also "ate" a rock that was similar to filt, and collected it in poutches in there mouthes. They would then clack the rocks together to create a spark, then breath, creating flame! There, done.

Blue Tiger · Post by **Blue Tiger** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 4:43 pm

There is a section on all about dragons on the other part of this site (colba/~tempest/) It tells you how they breath fire, breath ice and acid. Also provides scales, wings, colours and sizes.....

MrShrike · Post by **MrShrike** » Tue Apr 24, 2007 6:16 pm

there are tons of things that can make fire, not just sparks and flamable gasses. go see for yourself and play mad scientist and start mixing the substances under your sink

nah, don't do that, you might die, then I'll feel kinda bad.

+ Silver - Orbs + · Post by **+ Silver - Orbs +** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 12:00 pm

...I take it no one read my reply? This thread has been done.

And, as Blue Tiger said, it's on the main site.

MrShrike · Post by **MrShrike** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 6:14 pm

I did, I just didn't think it would be bad thing to reply to it anyways, sorry...

+ Silver - Orbs + · Post by **+ Silver - Orbs +** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:46 am

I apologise too for 'snapping' at you.

Dragon444 · Post by **Dragon444** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 1:48 pm

Makadona, That is only the theory posed by the book dragonology. Said theory has been proven unscientific and thus disregarded.

Makadona · Post by **Makadona** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:08 pm

I know its a theroy, and I didn't get it from dragonology. Everything about dragons at the moment is theroy.

wut2say · Post by **wut2say** » Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:03 pm

There was actually a group that tested to see if what Makadonna said could actually happen.

If a creature evolves to fit those things, it is possible. The hydrogen also helps them fly....

Post by **vampirehunter42** » Thu May 03, 2007 6:36 pm

A small problem with the "hydrogen fire" idea.

When mixed with oxygen across a wide range of proportions, hydrogen explodes upon ignition. Hydrogen burns violently in air. Pure hydrogen-oxygen flames are nearly invisible to the naked eye, as illustrated by the faintness of flame from the main Space Shuttle engines (as opposed to the easily visible flames from the shuttle boosters). Thus it is difficult to visually detect if a hydrogen leak is burning. The Hindenburg zeppelin flames seen in the adjacent picture are hydrogen flames colored with material from the covering skin of the zeppelin which contained carbon and pyrophoric aluminium powder.[21] (Regardless of the cause of this fire, this was clearly primarily a hydrogen fire since skin of the Zeppelin alone would have taken many hours to burn).[22] Another characteristic of hydrogen fires is that the flames tend to ascend rapidly with the gas in air, as illustrated by the Hindenberg flames, causing less damage than hydrocarbon fires. For example, two-thirds of the Hindenburg passengers survived that hydrogen fire, and many of the deaths which occurred were from falling or from gasoline burns.[23]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen
So in fact it hydrogen was the gas use for dragon fire, it would not be too bad.

and for the lifting help,.

Hydrogen and helium are the most commonly used lift gases. Although helium is twice as heavy as (diatomic) hydrogen, they are both so much lighter than air that this difference is inconsequential. (Both provide about 1 kilogram of lift per cubic meter of gas at room temperature and sea level pressure.) Helium is preferred because it is not combustible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lighter_than_air
and

Basically, as the temperature increases the volume of the gas increases.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles%27s_law

And seeing a dragon's body temperture will be higher than room temperture, they can not hold enough gas to help them lift.

Corva · Post by **Corva** » Sat May 05, 2007 5:43 am

It is possible they could chew something analogous to firestone (Dragonriders of Pern). This would ignite on contact with oxygen. Really, it does exist.

Post by **vampirehunter42** » Sun May 27, 2007 2:31 am

Sorry about necromancy here but I have had a thought on this.

I just can not think some "dust" or a small amount of "gas" will be an useful effort on the part of the dragon. The amount of work and energy used in preparing the "burning stuff" here just does not produce enough flame to be a danger.

But after reading up on a "lesser" dragon from the D&D worlds, which was pulled from a real life dragon. (the Norse worm) The article said they have a sack in the head with a material, which when launched into the air sets fire. This sounds a lot like a snakeâ€™s poison gland. And seeing the spitting cobra can launch a sizeable amount of the venom over a meter, this sounds like a better idea.

But my thought is still towards a substance, which is corrosive, (an acid maybe) which has a chance to ignite when in contact with the air. But this will also need to be a somewhat thick substance to still cause harm. So I see someone with an open torch being spit at by a dragon an the flame from the torch setting off the "spit". How about this though?

The best example is the flame-thrower.

Post by **vampirehunter42** » Sun May 27, 2007 2:33 am

Ooops, double post. Windows freaked out on me.

Falconer · Post by **Falconer** » Sun May 27, 2007 5:46 pm

It could be a compound like white phosphorous, or maybe Greek Fire.

Blue Tiger · Post by **Blue Tiger** » Mon May 28, 2007 3:48 pm

Oops, I think you double posted...
I think the Idea from the "Reign of fire" film was quite satisfying. Two seperate chemicals in glands on either side of the mouth. The dragon spits out the chemicals(like a spitting cobra) at such an angle and when they meet each other they catch fire and off goes thathuge brilliant jet of flame...

I dont know if it would actually work but I saw the machine that they used to film the fire and there was two different chemicals meeting.
Oh, and one thing bothers me, do dragons breathe fire through their mouth or their nostrels?, does it matter?

Corva · Post by **Corva** » Wed May 30, 2007 9:51 am

The best way to test it would be to make a sort of model. I might get to work on one.
Also, instead of wasting the gas produced during digestion it would be best to vent it into a secondery lung system. The gas would be breathed out when desired and a chemical in gthe mouth would ignite it.

Post by **vampirehunter42** » Wed May 30, 2007 3:17 pm

The problem with that is it is a "gas". And in that it will not be worth the bodyâ€™s energy. And giving the amount of gas needed to ignite in the air, the dragon will only be able to breathe fire once a day. The substance will need to be in liquid form to be useful. And this will cause a number of problems in its self.

But my above idea, of a thick substance, sounds much closer to the idea. Number one, we know of a creature who has an action like this. The spitting cobra can spray its venom a good length from its body and can do so a number of times in an encounter. For example the Mozambique Spitting Cobra can spray a distance of 2-3 metres (5Â½ - 8Â¼ feet), with remarkable accuracy. This is more than twice its body length, 900mm - 1,050mm (2Â½-3 feet). I can see a "venom gland" in the head holding the substance. This may even explain how and where the horns, of a dragon, come from. They can be there to protect the glands from being ruptured in a fight.

Corva · Post by **Corva** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 12:20 pm

And there is an insect that can spray a burning liquid out of its mouth.

Falconer · Post by **Falconer** » Fri Jun 01, 2007 2:50 pm

That's the bombadier beetle, and it sprays the liquid out of it's abdomen.