What if....

[Corva]

...dragons emerged into the world of today, through waking from hibernation or other means? Would there be war (Reign of Fire scenario)?

[vampirehunter42]

I really don't think so. The dragons would either be of animal intelligence or higher. And most interactions will go to the side of a peaceful action. But there is a chance at major conflicts.

The animal like dragon may cause trouble with humans at first. Taking of livestock, odd plants, pets and maybe the occasional human to eat. This is part of life, normal animals do this do this day. The tiger and Komodo dragon are known for stalking and killing humans. And many other creatures drain our farms of food supply. But this does not mean we will go to war with them all. There may be some "fighting" at first but after a number of dragons are killed and/or captured, they will realize human targets are not safe. But there will be the odd "killer dragon" in the news followed soon by a "Killer dragon dead".

And if the dragons are intelligent. They can do a head count and see there are some number billion humans and only a set number of them. If they are peaceful there may be talks with power groups like the UN. And some safe areas may be allotted to the dragons, maybe they would have to agree to become members of the countries they are staying in. Maybe a number of humans and dragons will die before this. And not all nations will allow then to stay there, but over all there will be a standing peace. (but just as well as it holds out normally with human to human actions)


On the other hand, if they are violent, I really don't thing it will take long for them to find out they are no match for our weapons. I don't care what the movies show you, our solders can hit the broad side of a barn. We have weapons that can shoot through a foot of plate steel and render a tank to ribbons. And if all else fails the nests can be found and nuked. The dragons would have to know that and abide to the laws set to them. This would be the only way a war would break. And would not last long. Most of our weapons fire at the speed of sound and more, so there is no way they can dodge a bullet or missile. As posted our weapons can puncture solid steel, so the scales of a dragon will not save them. And we have numbers and bloated military budgets that will cover it all. The only problem you may have with a war. Would be people like Greenpeace. But even they can work out violent dragons would cause more harm to the environment than good.

[Corva]

Well, if they were anything like humans, they'd be a few skirmishes, but no actual major wars.

Although, it would end up being friction = lots of heat, but no air. To paraphrase Marco (Animorphs, when speaking about the Hork-Bajir coming out of hiding):

Your average human can't stand anyone who supports a different football team to them, so they won't be able to deal with an giant lizard living next to them.

There'd definately be a few skirmishes. Like the Bradford Riots, but much worse.

Overall, no major military usage, but definatly Dragons (and Humans) would die. Here in Britain we'd probably lock egg smashers up for a couple of months.

[Pandora]

more than likely the gov. would fins out about them and hid them from the public. Then thay'd either kill try to kill them all and study their dead bodies, or they'd try to capture them and stusy them and even expirament on them becuase that's the kinda gov. we have. So if you where to find a dragon if you didn't want it to get killed you'd be smart not to tell anyone not even us.

[Falconer]

War. Total war would break out across the globe. The military would attempt to hunt them down, and the dragons would retaliate by burning cities and villages and crops until a sufficient area had been levelled for them to sieze control of. They would settle there, and the US would drop thermonuclear warheads on them.

[vampirehunter42]

Why would they burn everything down? I really think even with an animal's mind "salting the earth", would not be their battle plan.

But as I posted above, they will not stand a chance with our weapons and man power. Just think of it, we can hit a dime with a missile from a number of miles away. This missile can blow up an underground protected bunker, and flies at the speed of sound. The US government has even shown it can take out a satellite in low orbit. As for burning down a city, I can see one or two large ones get damaged, and a number of smaller ones wiped out. But as we learn to track them, all we need to do is send out the jets or other craft and blow them up. As for tracking, NATO is now watching the skies more than ever. And once anti-aircraft weapons are setup around choice targets, their body count will rise.

As I posted, either they are animal like or higher intelligence, and either way they will be smart enough to know we can wipe them out if needed.

[Pandora]

it wouldn't matter who started it first or for what reason i think the dragons would lose in the end. we arn't exactly a very understanding race .

[Corva]

Well, we've managed to prevent a world war for an entire 63 years!

I'm sure a few nations would try to destroy them, but not all, offering a safe haven. Their populations might, however. The country really is greater han the product of it's parts. Just slightly, but enough to prevent Xenocide.

I'm writing a book (yes, another one) along these lines. I've got about two pages of plot outline done. Take the situation as described above, throw in a Dragonrider (who prevents Chavs from smashing all the eggs in a nest), an intolerant society, and there you have it!

[Falconer]

If you saw Reign of Fire or Dragon Wars, then you saw how effective our weapons are against them. It basically all depends on how many dragons emerge. Few, and there will likely be peace. Many, and they will attempt to replace us as the dominant species on this planet.

[vampirehunter42]

You are using a movie for a token of real how real something is. I need to explain something for you.

1. A bullet flies faster than the speed of sound. So when you hear the 'bang' the bullet has hit you.

2. A solder can hit the broad side of a barn. The military has this thing called a 'firing range', where they train their solders to shoot a gun. Also pilots are continually practicing in mock combats. They know how to hit something right in front of them. And they don’t wait until they are 10 feet away to do so.

3. We have guns that can put a bullet through a couple of inches of hardened steel. For example the A-10 can fire 3,900 rounds per minute, it can place 80% of its shots within a 40-foot (12.4 m) circle from 4,000 feet (1,220 m) while in flight. And this can turn a tank into scrap in a short burst of fire.

4. The Soviet Union was able to take down a U-2, an aircraft that could fly at 70,000 feet (21,000 m), in 1960 with ground to air missiles. And missiles can fly faster than sound as well, and as posted above can hit with near pinpoint accuracy.

5. Never believe what a movie shows you as to what the military can or would do. 99% the makers of movies don't even have the support from them.

Really and think of it like this, a dragon can only use its fire breath for a set amount of time and a set number of times until it must rest and refresh itself. And on top of that the amount of energy needed to keep up an attack will kill them from starvation. Even one botched raid can bring them down. We can hold a battle because we have fighters and people who can support them. We have supply lines and fighters protecting them. And with that we don’t need to kill them outright, just wound them.

[Blue Tiger]

I would say that humans wouldnt attack dragons immediately, it depends on how they emerge. If dragons were to turn up and start killing and the like, well, of course governments would take action. But if they appeared peacefully, as intelligent creatures, and perhaps communicated in some way, then im sure we would tolerate them. But of course, people will be afraid, and governements would worry about safety and also may think of using the dragons to their advantage, like bioweapons, or something.

Falconer wrote:
If you saw Reign of Fire or Dragon Wars, then you saw how effective our weapons are against them.

Well, actually in Reign of Fire, our weapons did nothing, lol.

But, if it were possible to live peacefully, theres the question of where the dragons could stay. And im sure there species would grow in number, and would be competing with the human numbers for resources, so conflict may inevitably break out. And as Vampirehunter42 stated, we could easily wipe them out that is if they arent magic.

[Falconer]

Dragons aren't tanks, incapable of dodging aircraft. They are not U2's, unable to dodge missiles approaching from a distance.
And don't count on NBC's because those inflict too much collateral damage.

Dragons can spin around in midair with a turn radius pilots can only dream of. When flying at top speed they can outrun most ground vehicles, and they can achieve this speeds in seconds. Their scales are composed of a material harder than diamond, with not even AP rounds can penetrate. Their fire can be generated in large amounts for extended periods of time. With an inate knowledge of tunneling and caves, they can approach cities under the radar, then burst from cover, burn large sections of ground with a fire burning hotter than 4,000 degrees Farenheit. Then, before any organized military response can be enacted, they can disappear back underground.

And when are supply lines needed when the very foes you slay are your food?

[vampirehunter42]

How? If you want to use magic, say so. You have a number of "what we think they can do" items there. I don't see anything that can be proven. (blast my scientific mind.)

Ok let me see:

1. Dragons can defy Newton’s laws of Physics?
[quote="A body continues to maintain its state of rest or of uniform motion unless acted upon by an external unbalanced force."
"F = ma: the net force on an object is equal to the mass of the object multiplied by its acceleration."
"To every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." [/quote]
That is: In order to change direction, they need to use enough force (I guess with wings) to first stop them selves then enough force to go in the new direction.

And: In order to accrete that quickly, they once again need to apply a huge amount of force.

Unless: Dragons are weightless?


2. They are covered with an impossible material?

Really how can this be?

3. They have a near unlimited supply of "fire breath"?

So where is it coming from? And how does this count into it's above weightlessness?

4. 4,000 Fahrenheit?

How? Really how? In order to make that much heat you need an amazing amount of oxygen to fuel the fire. Really, a modern blast furnace can only just hit that temperature.

5. They can burrow through solid stone?

Really, what do they do about the heat build up? What do they do with the diggings? At what speed can they move?


But I must agree with the eating part. But really how healthy would eating humans be?

[Corva]

So that's what happened to all the Dragons. They were all killed by humans for the Unobtainium.

I wanted an at least half-way serious discussion, based on scientific Dragons.

[vampirehunter42]

Sorry for my outburst. As you all know I do get like that at times. And yes I am one of those people who mumbles "Oh, come on" while watching a movie.


But I stand by my higher animal intelligence level dragon. About a horse size, with some flight abilities. And that is how I based my thoughts on the above.

[Jishdefish]

I think the dragons died of indigestion. Humans can cause that from what I hear. XD Just kidding. I just had to say something.

Seriously though, maybe dragons were made of energy? That would explain the lack of weight and high temperatures. And like all energy sources they eventually burn out. Maybe they went to the sun to recharge.

[Corva]

Perhaps, then, you would be interested in sore of DraconicChronicalers ideas. Google Dragons+Seraphim and you'll probably find him again.

[Blue Tiger]

Sorry for my outburst. As you all know I do get like that at times. And yes I am one of those people who mumbles "Oh, come on" while watching a movie.

Im like that too vampirehunter42, lol. I usually say "Yeah right." sarcastically.

Back to the original point, Like ive said, there wouldnt be a war unless dragons attacked us, or posed some sort of threat, and especially not if they were intelligent, that is not evil and intelligent. But I have never liked the idea of dragons being pure evil creatures, in fact, the whole idea of an animal being evil just doesnt work. I mean, think of all the creatures on this planet, just because some may kill humans, they never do so for fun, or anything like that. Humans are perhaps the only evil creatures on this earth. But I suppose if the dragons were intelligent, then they could posses the same traits that make people evil, so they might attck us. But we have no idea of dragon culture, I think they would see us as a threat to the world and they may either decide to remove the threat, or try to help us to stop our destruction, I have no idea how they would go about this but either way could start a war.

Actually, back to the evil thing, remember in Reign of Fire when Quinn goes up to the dead dragon and takes out the egg, well as he walks up to it theres a shot at the moon and then a scene with the horse getting restless, that almost ruined the film becuase it was all hinting that the dragon was of supernatural evil nature, which no animal is.

And also, if dragons are magic then I would say that that would be the only way they could survive from our weapons. If they have no magical abilities and they aremt the size of Godzilla or larger, then im afraid they would go extinct pretty quickly.

But, if we were able to communicate with them and form some sort of understanding and peace, where would the dragons go? Where would they live? All I could think of is places like the Arctic and Antartic, depending on the size of their population and the rate that it grows, there would be severe compettion for resources, ie, room and food.

[Corva]

Deepends whether they live in harmony with nature or not.

Chimpanzees are evil *shudders* Where else would those tales of Goblins have come from except Humanzees?

[vampirehunter42]

Wow, like the meat eating Chimps. I watched a Jeff Corwin episode where he followed a troop of them, creepy. I like that idea of Fairy creatures, it may work in some areas.

[Falconer]

That explains it. I am of the opinion that dragons were big, around 120 feet long. We aren't talking midgets here.

As for the monkey business, chimpanzees could just be the source of goblin lore, or maybe an extinct species of ape closely related but with greener fur.

[Corva]

[off topic]Sloths!![/off topic]

I am of the opinion that dragons were big, around 120 feet long.

With the same flying abilities as Ostriches.

[Falconer]

[off topic]Sloths!![/off topic]

Yes... we all fear the hordes of goblins running after us at 1 mile a day...

[dr drako dragon]

it could happen and probably would if dragons returned (which i hope)

[Corva]

Hopefully, they aren't as dead as this thread.

Oh well, we aren't likely to get many new threads though.